[Dragon Cowboy]

I was going to post this in the prayer section but I was sort of hoping this might spark a little conversation. I'm not even sure how many people pop in here anymore, I know that my interaction has dropped way off but I still come by and read the latest post. Anyway...

My wife and I are struggling with our Church. I'm fine spiritually (as well as any of us are) but my wife has been struggling with a lot of things. First is the loss of my job and the fact that she is now the primary bread winner and I'm a stay at home dad. This is difficult for her because her desire is to be a stay at home mom. Second are all the job opportunities I have had involve either a crazy commute (1 hour plus) or the latest was going to eventually be closer but I would have to spend 3 months (or longer) in South Carolina 5 days a week, coming home on the weekends.
Then there is our Church and the main reason I am writing this short novella. There are a lot of things going on, too many to list here but here is the jest. My wife used to be heavily involved with the women's ministry but after some burn-out and the fact that this ministry is geared towards women who are stay at home moms, not career women, she has distanced herself. She has no mentors who are "christian" moms who are still in the business world (she's pretty corporate - practice manager).
There are also some things going on within the church. There has been little to no concern for our situation (we are fine) but it would be nice if someone would ask us how we are doing every once in a while. There have also been some opportunities that we had been talked to about that ended up going a different direction and the lack of communication there has been frustrating. Bottom line is there has been some hurt there along with a lot of changes and we are struggling to find our purpose within the church.
I don't believe, at this point, that we are ready to step out and find someplace else. We used to love our church and have a lot of family and friends that go there, many of which, we invited. The real problem is that I'm not sure they are headed in the same direction that we are. Not to say that either of us are headed in the wrong direction, just maybe different directions.
I'm hoping that most of this is growing pains on both sides but at the same time, I cannot neglect my wife's spiritual well-being. I'm getting fed on my own or through podcast but she isn't getting a whole lot. I would love to start a couples study but with the little one and my wife's work, it is difficult. I know that it's not impossible and this too is my responsibility so I'm looking for suggestion here as well... what do you guys do with your wife/family for devotions/study?
I know this is sort of convoluted but I didn't want to write a book.
wrap up...
First... Pray. Pray for me and my wife. Pray for us as parents and as husband and wife and as children of God.

Second... What suggestions do you have concerning church?
what would be the appropriate/biblical response to our concerns with the direction of the church or things that are happening?
I'm afraid that approaching leadership would produce the standard cliche responses that I've heard in the past. I also don't want to appear to be one of those church people that sling rocks on their way out?
Finding another church in this area where we can feel comfortable may be difficult. This is a small town, full of small traditional churches and while it may be possible that there is another church out there for us, it might be an exhaustive search?

bottom line: How do we get back to the point where we are excited about church so that (like this morning) we don't find it so easy to not get up and go?

disclaimer: part of this is just venting, part is prayer request, part is seeking Godly counsel and part is looking to spark a conversation. We are not whining or complaining, just trying to find the path that God has for us so that we can fulfill the purpose for which he created us. There is a lot more to this story than just what is above and a lot more detail... I'm sure this goes for both sides.

My primary concern is my wife's spiritual health. Is she just going through a "dip" as I did a couple months ago and should I wait it out, or is it time to make some changes?

Love you guys!

[Brodieman]

Ok bro, this is bound to be a LONG post...buckle in.

I'll address your post in order, as well as I can. Know that I'm approaching this from a Biblical perspective, that I have dealt with similar struggles, and that this isn't from a know-it-all perspective or opinion. I love you as a brother and know you're in a transitional time in your lives. That being said.....

Your concern over your job offers, your wife working as the main breadwinner, and your family time is coming from a selfish viewpoint. What I mean it this.....it would be better for you, for your wife, and for your role as the spiritual head of your house to have to commute, Your wife's desire is to be a stay-at-home mom. You have an obligation to do everything possible to make that happen. By being a stay at home dad, and not accepting a job that you could work but don't, you are exposing your wife to your curse. In Genesis, God make it clear to Adam that his curse would be that he would have to work by the sweat of his brow....not Eve. In today's society, most women WANT to work outside the home, but your wife wants to actually take up her place where God desires....raising and nurturing her child, and being a mother. To not allow that would be (in my opinion) to sin against her and God. I'm not accusing you, and I love you bro, but the Word is clear on this. Even if you have to take a job that's not the "perfect fit", you have an obligation to change the situation for the sake of your wife. Trust me, from experience, if you are obedient in this, God will make the transition a peaceful one, your wife will be at peace because she'll be raising your daughter, as is her natural maternal desire as well as her specific desire in this situation, and God will bless your obedience with the grace to endure whatever is necessary in the short-term for future glory. My suggestion is simple....take a job that's offered that will allow your wife to stay home with your daughter, and be the spiritual head of your house by exhibiting obedience in this area. God will give all of you the peace, grace, and stamina to endure what will likely be a blink in the span of a lifetime together.

Church......Having gone through something similar with recently leaving our church of 10 years, I can tell you that as a lay leader, you should talk to your pastors about what's going on. Share in love your concerns, where you feel like things are splitting directionally, and share your heart. If they give you the "token" responses, then at least you know you did your part to convey your heart to them. Share the hurt, but make sure it's biblically founded...don't speak about hurt based in emotion, because it will come off emotional, not necessarily valid. Back up your assertions with Scripture. If you cannot, then before you even try to meet with them, I would talk as a couple as to whether or not your concerns and hurts are valid Biblically, or are just "hurts" (not to minimize the latter, I think you get my point).

Don't look for someone to show you compassion or see "how you're doing". Do we want that? Sure. But there's one thing about humans...they will let you down, even those you consider your dearest friends. It is part of life, and part of the human condition. Our job, in the midst of that as believers, is to let God be all-in-all, and not worry about who else notices or acknowledges our situation, ESPECIALLY if you're "doing ok".

Again, having gone through a church body transition myself, I can tell you not to count out the idea that maybe what's going on now is God preparing the two of you for the next stage of the journey. Mind you, it could take a LONG time. How I felt about our church 18 months ago and how I feel about it now are two different things. I still love everyone there, and I hope the church becomes all as a local body that God wants it to be, but I def. see some of the internal "stuff" differently than previously. That was a LONG, HARD road, though. 2009 was personally probably the hardest year of my life, and 95% of that difficulty surrounded being at the church we were at. What I learned in that process, though, was not how God wanted me to deal with other people, but how God wanted to deal with me and my attitude and actions in the midst of adversity. Coming out the other side, I am thankful, but it would not have happened the way it did unless I listened to the voice of the Spirit guiding Theresa and I through, as well as exhibiting the patience to not make a rushed, emotional decision (as I wanted to do at LEAST 4 times). That too was due in whole to God's grace and mercy in our lives, especially mine.

Wait on God. Pray, then pray some more. Allow Him to guide your steps in all these matters. If we ask, He is faithful. I've always said it this way....if we ask God for help, and are faithful to Him and His Word, He's not going to leave us hanging.

Hope this helps bro. Trust me, I know how difficult this stuff can be. Give me a buzz or FB/message me if you need to. Love you man.

[Dragon Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Brodieman

Hope this helps bro. Trust me, I know how difficult this stuff can be. Give me a buzz or FB/message me if you need to. Love you man.

Thanks for being honest Jeff! I wish we could sit down over coffee and discuss the whole thing with all the details. I do have a friend here that I can do that with but he has been doing a lot of traveling lately. I will have to nail him down for some time soon.

My response (just for the sake of clarification, not argument).

Job situation: I've had two opportunities over the last 6 months. The first was an 1:15 min. commute with no traffic on a hwy where morning and afternoon traffic are terrible. So maybe 2+ hours (one way) if traffic is bad. The deal breaker for me was that it was contract to perm, meaning I would basically have no benefits for 6 months while they train me and invest time in me and then after 6 months, if I did a good job, they would offer me a permanent position. The problem with this is that going through a recruiter for cont-perm, if I got a better offer close to home and left, I would basically be "black-balled" as a potential contract employee for future opportunities. It wouldn't look real good for me. If it had been strictly contract, I would have jumped on it.

The second opportunity was a company that was moving there plant closer to my home but the move was going to take approximately three months (or longer). During that 3 months, I would have had to drive down to SC (2 1/2 hours) either Sunday night or Monday morning, stay in a hotel for 5 days, then drive back Friday night. That would give me 8 days (at best) with my wife and new daughter a month.
I didn't tell the recruiter no, she finally told me that it didn't sound like a good fit because of my hesitancy.

now... the other problem as I see it. Neither one of these positions would allow for us to let my wife quit her job and become a stay at home mom. Partially because both were contract position in the beginning with no benefits (health care) and the other is that the permanent salary in the end would still not be enough (right now) for us to live on one salary. (I'm still drawing un-employment).

Now.... based on the information above, do you still feel that I should have taken either opportunity?

Church situation: I think you are right on. I do feel like I'm going to have to address my concerns with leadership at some point, thanks for confirming this. My concern was that I was being too patient waiting to see how some of this plays out. I went through a lot of the same frustration that my wife is feeling about a year or two ago. I actually did some research and Seth Godin (sp?) wrote a book called "The Dip" that I want to read eventually that discusses this. I finally pulled out of this "dip" and have found peace in my circumstances by realizing that people are fallen, I cannot fully comprehend the ways of God and I am fully responsible for my own spiritual growth. Hebrews 5:11-15

Part of my frustration stems from the fact that I know, I am absolutely certain, that God has something "more" (not to demean those who do ministry where they work but I believe that there is something different ahead for me) out there but I just haven't seen the opportunity yet. My fear is that I've missed it, or that I am missing it. I don't particularly like saying that I'm "waiting on God" but that probably, more accurately, God is waiting on me. Therefore I am doing my best to not "be stagnant" while God is preparing me for what lies ahead.

Once again, Thanks for sharing, I love your honesty and look forward to reading your response.

btw: Do you and Theresa do a couple or family devotional or study together? If so, what does that look like?
What things helped you guys get through this transition period?
and... What is going on with the book?

[Brodieman]

I'm not saying,given those situations, you should or shouldn't take either of those two jobs, specifically. With more information, and even if I were only privy to your original information in your first post, my point remains. What I am saying is a regards a principle, not a specific opportunity. What I'm saying is that, as the spiritual head, and the literal head of your household, you have an obligation to do everything in your power to find something where your wife's desires can be fulfilled. If you're doing that, awesome. Keep it up, because God will bless your diligence in that area of your life. I was simply trying to imply that it might be wrong to pull a Cousin Eddy and "hold out for that management position". What I meant above was not to say, "well, I'm a stay at home dad, so be it." Again, if that was presumption, it wasn't my intent. I know you're a solid man of God who wants the best for his daughter and best for his wife. All I mean is don't settle for anything short of that. Be the man of God the Bible calls you to be, and He'll take care of the rest.

As for the church scenario, I think we as Christians do ourselves a disservice. I've been guilty of thinking I "missed" it as well, but the thing about the Holy Spirit is, when you are diligent, when you are praying and seeking God, He will make Himself known to you. Don't worry so much about missing it as much as keeping after the call, because like I said, the call could take years. Think of the Apostle Paul.....from the Damascus Road experience to his first missionary trip was 14 years. FOURTEEN YEARS. That's a long time, bro. Today we feel a call in our lives (again, I'm guilty of this as well), and we expect it to happen in our timing. It never does. If you would have told me I would be where I'm at now 2 years ago, I wouldn't see how it was possible. But God works in our lives in accordance with His own will. If we are listening, He unfolds things as He chooses, it's up to us to be diligent in listening first, then acting. Just continue your diligence in ministry, and if that means you are "sitting" for a while, then sit. If it means you move on to another body, then move. But make sure that move is, again, for Biblical reasons, not as a result of emotions.

What helped Theresa and I through the transition was talking......alot. Put differently, alot of complaining about things on my end, and Theresa balancing me out with perspective. I said alot of things to Theresa about our situation that I wouldn't utter to another person, but there lies part of what helped us. I would "vent" it to her, we would discuss it, then I would reflect on our conversations. I also would run alot of things by Signorelli, who really dealt with alot of similarities to Theresa and I. The one thing I tried not to do was a) open my mouth and do irrepairable damage, and b) speak too soon. For us, that meant me not saying anything for over a year. But when we left, it was in the right spirit, with the right heart and perspective, and with no bridges burned. I can walk into that church today and maintain the same level of relationship with everyone as before we left. That wouldn't have been the case had we left 6 months ago. It would have broke bad in a hurry. But that's where God had to teach me some things, so that my perspective was right.

Honestly, Theresa and I don't do any kind of set devotional or study...and I wouldn't suggest this for everyone, but what we do is talk about Godly things.....all the time, and intentionally. We will talk about and reflect on messages we hear, so sometimes we have a 'template' for discussion, but honestly, alot of times it's just a part of our everyday conversation. We've tried to do the devotion book-type stuff, but it just feels too 'plastic' to us. We'd rather engage each other, and the kids, in open dialogue about questions, doubts, and spiritual things than use a book to do so. For us it feels to forced. So whether it's something on our hearts, something in current events, a message, or just a question thrown out in general conversation, we are always talking about something spiritual. It's just how we've always rolled.

Book....is being pitched to publishers. We're putting together book proposals now, and sending them out to IVPress, Barbour, Relevant, etc. Pending.......

[Dragon Cowboy]

Thanks Brodie! No mixed signals, I just wanted to see if you felt the same way with a little more detail. The decisions I have faced with job opportunities have been majorly difficult and while in the midst of the decisions, I've been fortunate to come out of each one with some peace. "I think"... that it's a "God thing" that each decision has been "just out of reach" of what I'm willing to travel. It's almost as if I'm being asked "how much are willing to sacrifice your family (time-wise and relationally)" in order to gain a greater monetary income. While things are often "tight" we have not had to make a lot of sacrifices financially (as long as I'm drawing un-employment).

You are totally right... I have to keep reminding myself to be patient on the ministry side. To be truly honest... I'm still lacking some self-discipline in some areas that I would need for certain opportunities. I am working on this.

Thanks again Bro!

[cxa]

I am probably writing this so those who read it will see how others think. I will most likely be calling you in the next hour.

Your job situation is a hard one...but I do believe that you guys need to find out how to get your wife back in the home. I agree with Jeff and his biblical references. I believe that most of her struggles (spiritual and otherwise) are based upon this issue.

Church issue...I agree with Jeff again. I would pray about it first and then make an appointment and talk to them. When you leave, pray about what just transpired and ask God to lead you.

Your feeling neglected? I agree with Jeff again. I would take that to the meeting as well...not to throw it in their face but to show concern. Because if it is happening to you it could also be happening to others.
Our church heard something similar here just recently. Our case was different but it came down to mis-communication on both the parts of the person and of the leadership. It was taken serious enough that we are putting things in place so that the likely hood of it happening again will be slim. Our church has some Great hearts but needs more administrative type personell in place. God gives everyone certain skills and leadership full of feet aren't as effective as a leadership with both feet and hands. Everyone brings something to the table and learning to delegate properly is HUGE. An eye does not need to be doing an ears work...especially if you have an ear ready to serve. I am hoping that you have an open hearted leadership that wants to find its weaknesses and improve upon them.

About to give you a call now!!

[Fighter4Christ]

Being that Kris and I are so young in our marriage, I have no advice to give. I have been, however, praying for you and your wife for over a year now, and will continue to do so.

Jeff, Christian, thanks for your words of wisdom. I will do my best to soak up this knowledge you guys have just shared, Thanks.

[Dragon Cowboy]

You guys are great! I cannot thank you enough for the prayers and sharing your wisdom.

I can't wait til the day we can "hang out" together, either worldly or heavenly!

[cxa]

Brother...you are awesome!!

I called to Encourage you but I hung up encouraged. Crazy how God can work through His children.